Transcript

Michelle

So if I want to help you out, to take a different route, to make a change in your life, personal, professional, how do I work with your innate desire for you to arrive at that change?

 

Sylvie

Hi, I’m Sylvie Milverton, CEO of Lynx Educate. This is ‘Talent is Everywhere’. We’re here to talk about how to keep talent and how to develop talent in order to build a strong business. We’ll interview leaders to hear their best experiences of how they invested in people. Welcome to the podcast. Today we have a special guest, Michelle Fenech Sabrina, who I met in Malta. As you know, we’re starting to explore opportunities for Lynx in Malta. And so this is very exciting to have our first Maltese guests, welcome!

 

Michelle

Thank you Sylvia. It’s a pleasure. I actually am very happy and pleased to be here with you today. It’s the beginning of the year. And what’s a better way than to start off with a beautiful conversation with you, which I’m really looking forward to.

 

Sylvie

Wonderful. To introduce Michelle a little bit. She has 20 years experience in HR and training, including lots of senior leadership roles, especially at Starwood Hotels and Marriott. We met actually, because I saw her speak at a big event at FHRD, which is the Malta Human Resources Association, where she was for a long time active on the board and still obviously very involved in the local HR community with them.

 

And I saw her be a panelist on a very interesting panel. So I wanted to invite her to the podcast. And so today she’s founder and director of Speak to Move, which is her own company, where she works in executive communication and coaching, public speaking for professionals. Across from, you know, junior people to seasoned CEOs. And I was super interested in this just thinking about public speaking.

 

And you know, how it’s related to HR leaders, how it can help us all grow and so maybe we can start. Why don’t you share with us a bit your personal journey of how you move from pretty traditional HR roles to becoming a public speaking coach?

 

Michelle

Yeah. So in fact, this is a question which I get quite often asked Sylvie. In fact, many people tell me how come from HR you transitioned into public speaking? And for me, it’s been a very natural transition, actually. So as an HR professional, as you have mentioned, I do get invited to speak at conferences and, for a good amount of time, let’s say I’ve had the opportunity to speak, be it on a panel or to deliver a presentation and also deliver a keynote.

 

And then I would be speaking about HR subjects, and what was happening was that following the sessions, people were coming to me and telling me, what you said was great, it was interesting. However, I really like your style of delivery. I really liked your presentation style. Do you deliver training on that? And this question I got asked quite often, I must say, it kind of rang a bell for me.

 

It was like telling me: Listen, I have this calling. I know I want to do something new, something different, and people out there, the audience, are telling me what they want from me. So, I decided to invest time into developing this skill more, into being more attentive of myself. Growing my own self awareness is something which, as an HR professional, was crucially important for me.

 

And then on top of that, I invested time in researching public speaking and researching what goes beyond the words spoken, how to actually put a good speech, a good presentation together until eventually I built up an accredited program on public speaking, which now I have been doing for the past five years. And alongside that, I also now do coaching to senior leaders for different professionals as well.

 

And, it’s become an avenue for me, which I truly enjoy so much so fulfilling to be able to contribute to other people’s growth and to have people reaching out to me specifically for this scope. So I find that I am really in my flow doing this thing. Right.

 

Sylvie

Yeah. And I can definitely relate because what I really was, interested in when I saw you, you know, at the conference and you were moderating, it was a combination of where you were able to have done really good research, to have asked each person a very relevant question to themselves, and then you kept it like an engaging conversation, and it didn’t feel just like each person was, you know, in their own zone. So maybe you can talk a little bit about how you kind of prepare, like what do you think is unique about your delivery and your way of speaking?

 

Michelle

Yeah. So for me, it’s very important. It’s something which I share with the people who come to me for training or coaching about really being connected to the moment, being connected to the audience.

 

So you have in front of you being connected to the message as well. But of course, that also requires doing preparation, right? So I am not an advocate of trying to wing a presentation which is a high stakes moment. So it is important to dedicate the time to prepare yourself, to get to know who your audience is, who you are speaking to. If I am interviewing someone, if I am holding a panel discussion, I need to know who my people are, right? I need to know which company they work for. What are their current pains, challenges, opportunities, at which stage of growth they are right now? Because I need to gather and then ask the questions according to where they stand right now.

 

And the fact, for instance, you brought the example of the panel discussion I featured in the last, annual conference. Yes, thought was put into framing the questions, making sure that they are suitable for the people I have in front of me. But also what I find very important is to keep it conversational, people don’t like it when we sound too formal or too structured. We need to give it a little bit of spontaneity, a little bit of playfulness as well, I like to call it. So the way it works for me, and what I recommend to others is if I am really paying attention to the person I have in front of me. If I am really invested in them, if I really do care about them.

 

I have done some research to get to know what’s going on with their organization, with their professional, with themselves. Right? And I frame questions in an interesting way. And then according to how they answer, I probe further. So for me it’s a matter of combining an element of wisdom and expertise, but also with spontaneous play of playfulness and my feedback and my experience has been that people find that it really resonates with them, and the audience connects more with us when we do that.

 

Sylvie

Yeah, no, that is so true, because I feel like when someone is just reading something, you definitely get this feeling of, it just doesn’t feel authentic, even if it is authentic. And so being prepared enough so that you don’t have to read, but that you’ve done your research.

 

Michelle

Because when someone is reading, it sounds like it was recorded to us, right? It’s like playback and we don’t like playback. We like live, which is happening now. When something feels as though it has happened already, as though it’s robotic, it’s recorded, it is not exciting enough. And so it’s important to actually move away from that.

 

Sylvie

Which is probably something that you coach people around. And actually, when we were speaking before. So when you’re saying public speaking, I think most people and I included thought this: I think of primarily things that are happening on stage or in front of a group. But then you also combine this with coaching. So maybe you can talk a bit about how you think about public speaking in terms of HR leadership and the different ways. What does it mean for you, public speaking?

 

Michelle

Yes. It’s great that you’re asking this question, Sylvie, because I find that many people have a misconception of public speaking. Thinking that public speaking is solely when we are on that elevated stage. Yes, that’s one form of it, but surely not the only one, because in fact, we are engaging in public speaking everyday. Every conversation I have, even right now, it’s a form of public speaking. Be it a phone call, a video call, a virtual call, whether I’m having a 1:1 meeting with my people, be it a team meeting, be it leading the briefing, be it delivering a sales pitch.

 

So there are so many occasions when we are actually engaging in public speaking. And a few years back, yes, I did become a little bit obsessed with communication, noticing how people react differently according to what people say. So I became intrigued with this aspect of why is it that way? When some people speak, they are so influential and others become fascinated by what they say and others continue thinking and speaking about it.

 

But then when other people would say something, sometimes they speak quite at length, but they get completely disregarded. And I started observing and studying who are the most influential people? Why? What is it that they do? How do they say it? How do they become more influential? And the more I started to analyze these things and of course, seeking to apply them myself, I realized actually that they can be very effective.

 

So, the beauty of it is that the more we open up our awareness, the more we are able to communicate better and to influence each other more. So a few years back, I led this program neurolinguistic programing (NLP), and it was one of the programs which really helps me open up my sense of acuity, open up my sense of awareness in terms of what’s effective, what’s not, what’s impactful, what’s not.

 

For me, it was the frame of communication, because it became my area of interest. And I started making these observations, I started noticing and I started applying them more, even in my role as an HR professional. So let’s take, for example, having to do a disciplinary conversation. Now that is something which requires preparation. And I started noticing how even in such critical situations and conversations, how important it is to watch every word that we say, one wrong word can completely throw the conversation off course,

 

if I say something and it gets misinterpreted by the person I have in front of me or the other people who are actually in the conversation, in that meeting, it can actually have some serious consequences or repercussions. So for me, that was one of the moments where I started saying: Every time I have a disciplinary hearing, a discipline situation, I have to prepare for it..

 

If need be, I also need to prepare certain words, which I will say. In addition to being prepared about the information about the case, how will I word it? I don’t want to say something, which then I said, oh, of course we said this and it’s actually not the case, you know, and then it gets thrown against you. So as HR leaders, we have several situations where our ability to communicate effectively becomes really important.

 

Now I have mentioned disciplinary situations, which is perhaps one of the negative aspects, but there are the positive aspects as well. So from praising our employees, from giving the sense of recognition, how do we do it? How do we do it in a way which is really genuine? How do I give praise and acknowledgment to my people in a way that shows that I really mean it? It’s not just lip service, right? So that aspect of connection. And then there are the moments where we have to speak up on behalf of our employees. We are their voice. So as HR professionals, we are on one hand representing the business, but on the other hand also representing our people. So how do you balance those different interests so that when you sit with the other senior leaders of the company, you are able to voice and articulate yourself well?

 

And I have found that that is one of the most important abilities that I had to develop as an HR professional. That’s when I was sitting with the General Manager and Director of Finance, Dr. of Sales and marketing, and Dr. of Operations, and my other senior leaders who I worked with, I need to be able to articulate myself well in a way that represents other as well, because I have this responsibility not just for myself, but for the team as well.

 

Sylvie

You know, that’s so true. And I think I have a lot of thoughts based on everything that you just said. But one is that the role of HR is in service to everyone else. And so there’s a sense where you’re helping others develop their career. You’re pushing the culture of the company. It’s almost like you’re the ‘second’ and so you really need to be, see, I’m even fighting for the words. Finding a way to get the right message, but also develop yourself. And that in a way, you’re almost forgetting to develop yourself. Maybe that’s what I’m getting at, that it’s easy to sort of put yourself aside as HR, because you’re such in service to everyone else.

 

And so to spend the time to find your own voice, in both ways and also to be able to advance the agenda of HR because often in companies it’s very difficult to get budget, to get focus. You know, it’s the most important thing, but often the thing you have to fight for the most.

 

And so all the more so that it’s important to be able to articulate and communicate what’s needed. And so what are some like tactical things, like, for example, if you’re talking to, maybe not like a CHRO, but let’s say like a director of HR is that, you know, fairly senior mid-level person who has to be in some meetings and you want to help that person, you know, be more forceful in meetings or be able to better get their point across or convince or argue effectively with leadership. What are some examples or things that you would train to coach with that person?

 

Michelle

Yes, so definitely one of them would be the confidence and the ability to say those things which you really believe in. I was having these conversations with my colleagues and I would recall, let’s say now speaking about an important matter at hand, and other people would come to me and say, Michelle, would you voice our matter on this subject and I would do it gladly. But my assignment was also helping them voice themselves, right? Because as much as I had grown the confidence and the ability to go and speak and articulate myself, and if I need to place an argument of ‘I need to enter a debate’, I do it without any hesitation. I don’t have any issue doing that, always with the right and being polite, being kind.

 

But if I need to turn on the heat and if I need to become assertive, of course I will play that part as well. In my case, I also felt it was important that the people who I work with, I help them develop this ability. So I would say the same thing to other HR leaders. Do not hold back from speaking up about matters that you feel are important, right? So if you are not the person doing that, then who would you expect to be doing it? So you ask me if I had the time to invest in my own learning. I was lucky enough to work with a company that provided me with several opportunities for growth, so I have been very lucky in that aspect and I always make sure I invest in my own learning and my own growth and my own communication ability because, as I mentioned, in addition to serving me, I was serving others as well.

 

So going back to the HR leaders, it is crucially important for a HR leader to have the confidence to speak up about important aspects. So I recall once, we were at this seminar for HR people and this question was posed; Does an HR leader have the ability to become the CEO of a company or the general manager of a company? For me it was an obvious yes. However, I happen to be in the very minority because my people were saying: No, the HRs, they have their place, they remain there. And I was like, why? Why not? Why are you holding the HR professionals back? Because the HR professionals have the ability to combine the needs of the people with the needs of the business.

 

And if you are able to see that picture really well, of course, then you have great leadership traits. Why not be at the very heart of the organization? And I remember standing up and speaking in a very strong way about this. And the person who was holding the seminar was like: ‘oh my God, we get it.’ And this thing kept on being mentioned for years. What I’m trying to say here is not holding back from speaking about the things that you really believe in. Right? And definitely it’s always a matter of continuing to grow in yourself, your team and all the people around you. And to have that confidence and to be able to speak up for what you believe.

 

Sylvie

Yeah, I totally agree with you that why couldn’t a HR person be a CEO. But it’s true. That isn’t a very common career path. And it’s actually crazy because I feel at the center of all things, you’re combining business needs and operational needs and people. Every CEO talks about how people are at the center of what we do.

 

So, I agree with your point, but what would be a tactical way? Like for example, if you’re in a meeting, what is it about you that gives you that confidence? How would you coach someone else to become the kind of person who can say: ‘Okay, I disagree with everyone else in the room, but I’m going to step up and say what I believe.’

 

Michelle

Yes, first of all, being a great communicator is not about being the person who speaks in the room the most. I want to make that crystal clear. It is something which perhaps I used to do in the beginning, but soon enough I realized that was not the most effective. The more effective ways to dedicate time to first truly listen to others.

 

Truly listen to everyone. And then if you want to come up with a well-rounded argument, that means having first listened to every other person in the room and evaluated their arguments well, understanding really where they’re coming from, and then sharing what you want to share. So that’s supremely important, listening to others first, then when situations arise that perhaps we don’t agree, okay, we’re not agreeing, but let’s start first with what are we agreeing on?

 

Many times we are negotiating, right? We are entering the debates that require negotiations. So let’s look at the end goal here. What do we want to achieve? And here we enter into those negotiation tactics where I say it’s supremely important not to enter into a spiral, because the moment we enter a spiral and it becomes an attack, the attack-defense, it just goes nowhere, right. So for me, an effective conversation is more like a dance, like you make a step, I make another step. You make that step. I come closer with another step. Right until intelligence, until it becomes a flowing movement. Now, perhaps saying it this way, you might sound very flowery. Your mouth says, ‘oh yeah, but in reality it doesn’t work out like that.’

 

But the truth is, if we really dedicate the time to listen to what others are saying, and then I frame my point of view in a way that is also of interest to you, because I have listened to what you want. So I angle it also according to how you want to get out of it, right? We have a better chance of arriving to where everyone wants to get.

 

Sylvie

I had a boss a long time ago who used to say, do you want to be right or do you want to be successful? And I often try to remember that. And I feel like that mimics a little bit of what you just said, like, how to have an effective conversation. Let’s not try to win, but try to get to whatever is the desired outcome of an interaction.

 

Michelle

Yes. And that could also mean that perhaps because I have truly listened to what you are saying and I see value, I am also ready to change, alter or amend my approach or what I want to say because I am now including the variable aspects of your conversations, of your arguments to mine. And I’m blending them together and of course, that will give us a better and more successful conversation, a better outcome.

 

So for me, this has been crucial in my role as an HR leader. I realized that when I became better at this, it enabled me to also increase my influence in the company. And this is what I seek to share with other people as well. Right? If you want to be more influential, dedicate time to really listening first. And then when you’re framing your point of view, you’re including others in that as well. Something also which is important that I want to say in terms of communication is that as HR leaders, we are also internal coaches. So we are coaches for the people who work in the organization. Many times they would come to us, they want to have a conversation with us, or perhaps if we are open up enough to catch those moments where someone needs a conversation, we go to them and we invite them for a conversation.

 

People need the time and the space where they can have a safe conversation with someone that they trust. So building trust is key. If I want someone to open up with me to perhaps share with me their struggles, what they’re going through, I need to create that safe space for them and build rapport. And that can only be done if I’m really interested in that person more beyond them being a worker. If I’m interested in them also by asking them about their personal life every now and then, you know, their husbands, their wives or their kids or, you know, close relatives for them, who is important to them. And being able to guide people because, you know, sometimes people need guidance. Now, that doesn’t mean we give them the answer, but that actually means asking them the right questions for them to be able to find the answers themselves.

 

So any HR leader today needs to have this ability of offering guidance to others by helping them find the solution themselves. And this is also something which I have discovered in my career that fosters that sense of trust, fosters that sense that people come to you because they trust you, because they want to have this conversation. I personally find this is very fulfilling when someone comes to me because they want to bounce off some ideas, because maybe something is troubling them and they don’t necessarily want me to give them the answer. And that shouldn’t be the case. Actually, I should not be giving them the answer. I should be asking the right questions so that they get through it themselves. This is also another important aspect of communication, right? So here we are looking at so many different aspects of public speaking right?

 

Sylvie

Yeah, it’s a yes to everything. In fact, the more that you talk I realized so many things come under public speaking while we think of it as just being on stage. But it’s so many smaller interactions. And so this sort of authentic role of HR, of being somebody where you can have an authentic conversation and give advice, ask for advice, is this something that you can teach? Like the ability to ask probing questions so that they answer?

 

Michelle

Yes of course, yes. So developing this coaching ability is actually a competence that can be developed. So it’s about, for instance, one of the key aspects of starting was always with listening first, but many times then the next step is asking powerful questions. And there is a way to ask a powerful question, how I ask a question that enables you to think, that doesn’t close down the conversation, that doesn’t make you feel judged, that doesn’t make you feel as though; ‘oh my goodness, I should not be sharing this’. But that actually says, ‘Maybe there are other ways to accomplish this.’ ‘Or maybe I haven’t considered this before.’ So the competence of being able to ask powerful questions is very important and crucial in our roles as HR leaders.

 

Sylvie

And what sort of resources, if you teach this or if you have books on ideas of places, people?

 

Michelle

Oh yes. So in addition to the program and public speaking, in fact, I do have a program coming up shortly for the leaders and coaches, which is geared for HR professionals and senior leaders. In it, we go through the science behind this, we also go through neuroscience. So how do we actually get people? If there is someone who I need to help them to change, how do I instill that desire, the innate desire in them to change?

 

Because we know right through science that being forceful is not effective. We know that. So if I want to help you out, to take a different route to make a change in your life, personal, professional, how do I work with your innate desire for you to arrive at that change? And here again, it’s back to asking those powerful questions.

 

In our program, we go through neuroscience, we go through instilling this need for change, asking questions in an effective way, and of course, then guiding accordingly.

 

Sylvie

That’s super inspiring. And now that, you know, we’re at the beginning of 2025, so it’s a new year and maybe we’re all. Today I’m in France and it’s been gray and snowy and rainy and the sun has just come out. And so we feel like new beginnings and new opportunities. What would be your advice to HR leaders who are the focus of this podcast, but really all leaders, what’s the one thing to change to kind of feel like I’m turning a page and I’m going to become a more open and more impactful leader through my communication. Like, what would be an easy thing to do that can make a big difference?

 

Michelle

So I love reading. I love reading immensely. In fact, my resolution, in fact, for this year, even if I love reading, is to read more. I find reading as something just very peaceful, very inspiring. It opens up my mind. And then when I’m having conversations with people like you and other people, I kind of find that that wisdom flows out right? Because I would have been accumulating that knowledge. So firstly, invest in yourself as an HR leader, then make sure that you do invest time in yourself and that could be reading. If reading is not your thing, then listen to podcasts.

 

You can learn so much from listening to podcasts like this one. And of course, there’s a whole myriad of podcasts from which you can learn. So find that avenue, that thing which enables you to grow your knowledge and your wisdom, which is going to be helpful for you. And also in your personal life, I’ve learned so much about how to be a better mother as well. I wasn’t born as a great mother. And I’m still, of course, learning along the way, making some mistakes along the way. But hopefully I have improved. And what’s the cause? I have paid attention to what has worked, what has not worked. Sometimes I go and restart some things. Sometimes I go, I say, okay, let me see how I can do this better.

 

So we are in this constant journey of getting better, becoming a better HR leader, becoming a better trainer, a better coach, a better mother by dedicating time for ourselves to increase our knowledge, but also having that time where we are in peace and solitude. I find that when I have those moments on my own and I reflect saying, okay, what worked well? What can I do better next time when I do this? Every time I deliver a training session, a coaching session, at the end of the day, it’s for me a constant process of growth and of self renewal. And I think these three things I have just shared with you. So reading or podcasts, having time for yourself and having time for self reflection. Our three simple yet effective ways of how to become a better leader.

 

Sylvie

Amazing. Yeah, I love that. I read a lot over the break and I came to a similar conclusion this year that one resolution I have for this year is to read more. Because it is just such a pleasure and it’s so easy to not make time for it. And yeah, for all the reasons you say, self-reflection. To learn more and I’m having wisdom which is able to flow. Well, this is an amazing conversation where I have learned so much. If people want to find out more about what you do or follow the course that you are offering, where can they look?

 

Michelle

So my brand is Speak to Move and I hope that in itself sends the message. Speak to Move, so it’s speaking to move yourself up the ladder. But it’s also speaking to move others, to motivate others. So they can check out my website Speak to Move. They can also find me on LinkedIn: Michelle Fenech Seguna. And I share blogs, I share articles, I love sharing quick tips, those one minute videos, or short posts where I share the knowledge and my experience with others is something which for me is very fulfilling.

 

So if you have listened to this podcast and you have found this engaging and interesting, please do let me and Sylvie know. And if you happen to pop on to my website or the LinkedIn page, it would be a pleasure for me to connect with you.

 

Sylvie

Amazing! Well, thank you so much Michelle. This has been a great pleasure and I can’t wait to be able to meet up with you again in person, in Malta.

 

Michelle

Same here as Sylvie, and I look forward to a possible collaboration on some of the programs that we have discussed as well. Yes, definitely, very much so. Thank you. Bye. Sylvie. Thank you very much. Thank you for inviting me to this episode.

 

Sylvie Milverton:
Thanks for listening to this episode of “Talent is Everywhere”. Make sure to subscribe if you like what you heard and give us a follow on LinkedIn to continue the conversation on all things career mobility and talent development.

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